Here is a new subject for something new. A lot of us have experienced one on the sides and inequitable contracts, in addition to operating guidelines that lack a feeling of justness.

Instead of complain about the poor quality ones, within this discussion, let's define our opinion are fair terms.

For example, in another discussion, it had been pointed out that the host had returned the unused servings of the service charge whenever a customer moved to a different server.

What else would we want to see and are available to anticipate? Remember, it should be fair, which means fair to host and customer alike.
*will get out notepad and waits for replies to increase his devoted server contract*

This is an excellent thread and To be sure with duster that contracts are mainly one on the sides. I attempted to create mine as fair as you possibly can but any posts here will be considered and probabbly added into my 6 page contract to increase its context making it as being fair as you possibly can .

Daniel Pearson
UltraSpeed USA
Goal: UltraSpeedUSA
ICQ: 7021831
Phone: 1-205-785-1872

[This message continues to be edited by DanielP (edited 06-30-2000).]
Well, the greatest problem I've with hosts are:-

1. 90% from the host never give their customers, the mentioned uptime. Why must I spend the money for full bill, when I'm not provided the entire service ?

2. When the client even goes 1 megabytes within the bandwidth limit, he/she's billed for any full gig of bandwidth (thats the situation with many hosts). Ok when the host reaches do this, i quickly ought to be returned for that bandwidth I did not use for that previous several weeks I had been using the host.

3. the word limitless shouldn't be utilized on anything within the tos associated with a host, no host can offer limitless levels of any service, its exactly that simple. The very best means to fix this ought to be a precise estimate.

Well, this about this.

Iam presently located with, and that i love them. last week i had about 11-20 hrs down time site 5 made the decision to provide that month in my experience without having any charge, now thats things i call a number. Even the tech icq's me whenever I'm going to breach my bandwidth limit, thus I'm able to take measures to lower my bandwidth usage.
Well one factor Personally, i Don't think in, is getting a period period or complicated procedure in eliminating accounts.
If your customer really wants to cancel there account they ought to have the ability to get it done simply. And become returned for just about any time they have taken care of and haven't used.

Also support staff should have the ability to offer responsible Technical support cost-free. (Since many website hosts do, Although some people might don't or charge outrages prices)

Probably the most complicated things to set up the TOS for me will be the over using CPU. Its difficult to say "Its as much as us" without having sounding unfair, however , that is what it comes down lower to. A server might have really low CPU usage, along with a client might be using 20% from the CPU on that server. Which in individuals conditions is not a problem. nevertheless, you could then possess a server with everybody running CGI. so obviously you could not allow a single user 20% using the cpu.

Is suppose they are much more of recommendations which i have confidence in. And never exact wording of the items ought to be within the TOS.

[ Jason Berresford Admin]
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[ (905)765-8140 ]
Hey Duster!

This really is an execllent thread you began - a very important problem most website hosting firms consider.

Here's one bit of caution:

It's not hard to lift off and modify bits of TOS's of other firms... that could work. But I'd really advise any firm seriously interested in remaining within the website hosting business for any very long time to a minimum of obtain TOS examined by an online savvy lawyer who's well experienced using the country's ecommerce and internet laws and regulations where the website hosting clients are incorporated/registered/conducting business in.

It can't considerably use to possess a TOS phrased mainly for an additional country by which ecommerce and internet laws and regulations aren't exactly the same.

This lawyer can also be an individual friend... one need not spend an enormous packet on legal costs.

In a nutshell, just a little investment property on the legally well-phrased TOS would save lots of harassment, money and time when the occasion came about, later on.

Also, since laws and regulations are constantly altering, you have to make certain their TOS can also be taking such changes into consideration whenever necessary. Failure to get this done could land some unforesighted website hosting company right into a small or large bowl of hot soup tomorrow... possibly with criminal implications/penalties... God forbid.

So that as was stated through the others above before me, both merchants and customers are getting wiser and wiser. A lot of us (I for just one am very particular relating to this) undergo a TOS having a fine comb before we get to a choice to host having a particular company.

Wise web hosters, who wish to take part in the long-term, must have a TOS which assures the merchant he won't be punished "unfairly" or "overly" for anything he isn't directly accountable for.

Though it might be imperative for any website hosting to incorporate clauses for example "immediate termination of account" should a reseller's client abuse their services, I believe such clauses ought to be pointed out inside a firm but much softer tone.

It might be better, in such instances, to "temporarily shut lower services" then an e-mail towards the merchant having a driver the penality could be more severe next time similar abuse of services occur. In by doing this, the merchant could instruct the customer consequently.

This could save the reseller's face, particularly if the merchant is working under their own personalized title server (which many website hosts now provide being an incentive).

Really am searching toward some healthy opinions and criticisms within this thread!

Also, would some website hosting firms who're regularly going to this forum please discuss their causes of getting or otherwise getting the suggestions pointed out by others within this thread.

A TOS is really a sticky problem, and clearly a website hosting clients are titled to consider necessary safeguards in order to save itself in case of any possible future lawsuit. I am certain many suggestions produced in this thread is going to be contended upon by other people who run website hosting companies themselves.

It's these arguments that will ultimately show us the real benefits and drawbacks of the TOS.

[This message continues to be edited by Student (edited 07-01-2000).]
In my opinion I recieve that which you mean, the main problem with many different TOS is they were compiled by lawyers (and that i could demonstrate a typical clause examined by lawyers regarding minors that will not endure in the court). It isn't the task of the lawyer (as numerous view it) to create an equitable contract. It's their job to safeguard their client. That's most likely why probably the most equitable TOS I have seen apparently began on your own rather than copying others. It requires a company person with a feeling of justness to create the relation to business.

You ought to pay attention to their accountant and lawyers, but never allow them to set a policy for any business.

One need not cover each and every detail when the overall intent is obvious, similar to the Promise of Independence (which a lot of us celebrate in a few days).

Additionally, it is not necesary to create it in "legalese", plain British is much better and much more easily understood by more people.

The main one sure method of not getting any issues with clients as well as their contracts would be to take proper care of them correctly. However, even some firms that are great used have terrible contracts. Which brings us back to the stage of the discussion, to develop an equitable contract and tos (since contracts aren't always needed).

While not a phrase itself, In my opinion the TOS or AUP or contract ought to be linked around the sales terms and order pages, and also the site ought to be built in this manner that certain must acknowledge reading through them before having the ability to make an order.

This benefits host and customer alike. They cannot pull new terms from a hat (usually whenever you exceed something) and also the customer may have occurred conscious of all terms and cant righteously complain about anticipation they do not cover.

[This message continues to be edited by Duster (edited 07-01-2000).]
"2. When the client even goes 1 megabytes within the bandwidth limit, he/she's billed for any full gig of bandwidth (thats the situation with many hosts).
Well I must agree and dis-accept that time

When they charge just for 1mb within the limit is nuts, if I visit a client @ 100-200mb over their limit 1-2 days in the finish from the month you wager i am likely to tell them their groing through and will have to be billed that which was used through out the month.

Now to the second item you stated.

"Ok when the host reaches do this, i quickly ought to be returned for that bandwidth I did not use for that previous several weeks I had been using the host."

I truly Need to disagree with this.
When buying bandwidth you buy it for which you anticipate to make use of not that which you use. Devoted or else.

It's essentially exactly like you getting the local Web service provider operate a line able to allows say 50gb monthly. And also you pay a set amount for this. Well will you request them for many of this fee back should you only push 10gb with the pipe every month ?

To not meantion the very fact of the billing nightmare to financeOrreimbursement bandwidth through the month, its simply not worthwhile.

Daniel Pearson
UltraSpeed USA
Goal: UltraSpeedUSA
ICQ: 7021831
Phone: 1-205-785-1872
Agreed. This kind of factor is really pretty common. Take your mobile phone plan ($30/mo incl. 100 minutes). Should you review that, you're billed extra. Same factor.

Companies have to hear their lawyers, and employ these to form TOS. In the end, the lawyers would be the ones needing to defend the organization against legal cases.

It is a great subject too, though I don't know clients cash worry about safeguarding the host company (though a lot of companies will have some concern for that customer). One on the sides I understand.
I truly hate the "We reserve the authority to alter the TOS anytime unconditionally"

Maybe ought to be a lot more like "We reserve the best....but provides you with 30 days notice associated with a TOS changes"
into my 6 page contract
This about covers my greatest pet peeve around the problem of TOS. It's a classic shame that to be able to cover all the bases for parties we must include a lot. Just to illustrate: "No Adult Content" isn't near not so difficult. When you 'lay lower the law' what the law states should be defined. What's adult content? What's porn? What's nudity? You mean I am unable to show fine nude art on my small site? Who defines "fine art"? Etc. etc. etc.

After I spoken with our attorney in regards to a TOS rewrite he was adament about filling it filled with "outs" because any statement could be defined in several ways. I've found it depressing at best after i try to behave apparently easy and it might be very complex due to definitions requiring to become so thorough as well as then, they may be asked and torn apart slowly...

With nevertheless:

Why must I spend the money for full bill, when I'm not provided the entire service ?
You should not! When the host is lower a lot more than their specified allowance for this (and that we should permit the host a little of leeway for standard procedures, reboots, upgrades etc) they should refund. These are typically defined inside the uptime guarantees. Whether within the TOS or perhaps in the service listing all site proprietors should join in to make certain the uptime guarantees are honored and discover what steps have to be taken, if any, to get the refund. I authored a lil something relating to this problem some time back at

I ought to be returned for that bandwidth I did not use for that previous several weeks
I must totally disagree with that one. Not due to billing or confusion or anything of this character but due to the entire first step toward Hosting That Is Shared. To construct your personal high-speed lines and servers etc simply to host just one website will make the thought of getting an internet site unthinkable for any huge most of people and companies online.

The important thing to hosting that is shared lies inside the "PACKAGE DEAL". Everybody is discussing the assets, which reduces the price for everybody around the server. When the host ended up being to charge just for that which you use, I ensure the prices of hosting would increase. Think about it which more than just bandwidth has been taken care of together with your package. You will find the server assets, POP accounts, FTP blah blah, humans, tech support team, offices, lines, administration, their email list goes so on. Frequently occasions these costs are handled by the bandwidth costs as well as other "extras". When the "Package Deal" may be split up for bandwidth it might should also be split up for the many other features it offers. Imagine having to pay per POP account, Per FTP Login, Per Telnet Login, Per Megabyte of Disk Space, Per Technical Support Contact, and so forth Be cautious pushing for that "pay just for that which you use" concept as that will surely lift up your immediate and ongoing expenses.

Discussing the costs with all of involved permitting individuals who use less to pay for individuals who use many the other way around is large reason a lot of can come with an Internet Presence today.

If your customer really wants to cancel there account they ought to have the ability to get it done simply.
Agree and disagree. It ought to be as easy as possible simultaneously it shouldn't be so simple that any "joe blow" may come along and also have your bank account cancelled. A number could possibly get into some trouble when they remove a merchant account since it "appeared" as though the website owner made the request simply to discover it wasn't the website owner. However, I don't see an excuse for retina scans and calculus equations to obtain a merchant account cancelled either.

You ought to pay attention to their accountant and lawyers, but never allow them to set a policy for any business.
Most evident. Our attorney begins off every conversation with "It's your company, my job would be to ensure what you're wanting stated is stated in a way that it's clearly understood in the courtroom of law". E.g. If I only say "No Porn" his job would be to clarify that in 110 various ways then when I haven't so fine "fine art" around the server I'm able to legally take it off.

I truly hate the "We reserve the authority to alter the TOS anytime unconditionally"
I actually do to. However, I've been consistently told "We reserve the best" ought to be there for a lot of things. E-commerce is altering so quickly something totally new pop-up just about every day it appears plus some of individuals things can be quite harmful for that host as well as their clients. Hence the significance of "reserving the best". I actually do agree that it might be best to ensure a reasonable warning. Better still might be a notice heading out asking for the website proprietors evaluate the new changes and acknowledging them. This can help the website owner to keep yourself informed making a valued decision of if you should remain using the host in addition to permitting the host a method to ensure "everyone around the servers has really seen the brand new terms and acknowledged them". This could prevent a situation of "Well individuals were not the terms I decided to after i registered."

My election on the new TOS is always to have two copies - The Legal Version and also the Layman Version.

After I browse the TOS by our attorney I explore it. I'd prefer to the website proprietors understand in plain British the fundamentals of what it's saying as well as for individuals who are required a chance to "dig in", the legal version can also be there. Actually, everybody could be saying yes towards the legal version however it could make it simpler to know it when we, because the hosts, required time to provide a less complex one for review alongside using the TOS.

Another small-forum-book full of dimes... Http://
I provides you with the very best explanation of the items n was speaking about with "we reserve the authority to alter the TOS..."

A brand new format of music becomes broadly recognized. Not Mp3, but similar. You need to update the TOS to incorporate this new format (in either case, but particularly if you will not host it). Situation closed.
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